That being in communion with the Pope is important? That a priest must be under the diocesan Bishop? That the Church is Indefectable? That an integral aspect of the Episcopal (Overseer) office is governance?
"Here’s what frustrates me about this: there is a large segment of faithful, orthodox Catholics who have a soft spot for the SSPX. Some attend their Masses. Some read their publications. Some quietly cheer them on as a counterweight to the chaos in the broader Church."
This tendency to just overlook regular attendance at SSPX chapels, particularly when the FSSP exists drives me a little batty too. I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of patience for someone who is probably driving at least 45 minutes, if not over an hour, past all sorts of Catholic parishes to attend those Masses.
Schism does matter, because it's about a lack of all three virtues: faith, hope, and charity. If you are a faithful Catholic, the bar is FSSP, not SSPX, even if you don't have any Missal of 1962 Mass convenient. I don't want to read materials from them. What materials I've seen mostly amount to uncharitable and pedantic rants.
"We would never think of cheering for Martin Luther, we would never think of cheering for Arias, and we would never think of cheering for 1970s modernists. "
The other 1970's modernist archetype was Archbishop Lefebvre. There's no meaningful difference between a cafeteria Catholic who will throw a fit if they don't get "Gather Us In" in flip flops versus a cafeteria Catholic who will throw fit if they don't ad orientum for 90 minutes in a language they probably don't understand. One party only has better taste. It's the same rebellion inverted.
I will blow mental gaskets when I claim traditionalism = a different form of modernism, but it's true. Vatican I and II were councils aimed directly at modernism. What do traditionalists and hippie/progressives reject? Vatican I and II.
How is exclusively attending the Latin Mass “avoiding the suffering of the Church?” Are you saying that we’re supposed to just sit quietly & endure twenty-plus years more of silly antics from Karen, Father Fabulous, Bishop Bubbles, etc.?
Hmm...I think you maybe meant this for another commenter??? Anyway, since you've clearly stated that being at Mass with rubes like myself is suffering, I think you've probably answered your own question. I would genuinely like everyone who is struggling with those issues to eventually not feel like it's suffering. Or least gain some perspective on those complaints anytime they look at a Crucifix.
Who is "Karen", "Father Fabulous", "Bishop Bubbles"?? They are derogatory stand-ins for the ordinary Catholics that we see at ordinary parishes/part of ordinary dioceses. Are any of them perfect? Nope. Are some of them annoying/hard to deal with/weak in faith? Yep. So we'll to need to throw me into the lot, because I'm all of those things too. It may turn out that learning to love Karen, et. al is exactly what we need to do.
I didn't realize so much action had erupted here. If you think this is a spectacle, you should see how the post is playing out on Facebook. Well over a hundred comments, two of them from Protestants, the rest from people defending the society. Not a single good argument in the bunch.
This is why I say Catholics are brainwashed. They are brainwashed by independent Catholic media and by the infection brought into the Church by sede vacantists, handing it to radical traditionalists within the Church. It's the walking dead. They talk and they talk, but they do not think. Intellectually dead, but animated.
I personally tend to believe there was already an alternative magisterium out there pre social media. It's just that social media set it on fire. People really do read their feeds as if a priest is telling them this in their living rooms.
There is a lot of truth there. It’s a bit of a paradox. Sometimes we do something but we mean actually precisely the opposite. For example: going exclusively to Latin Mass seems like the person is taking on the suffering of the Church, but it’s actually trying to avoid that suffering. It’s like closing your eyes on some reality and hoping that reality will disappear if we keep our blinkers on.
The crucifixion is and was a scandal . Jesus says happy are those that are not scandalised in me . Mt 11:6
My friend, you belong on a stage or in front of a microphone. That comment….my goodness! I mean I can go on a pretty good tear but your structure and substance there make me look like an imbecile at this. And your finishing move:
“I will blow mental gaskets when I claim traditionalism = a different form of modernism, but it's true. Vatican I and II were councils aimed directly at modernism. What do traditionalists and hippie/progressives reject? Vatican I and II.”
Would you mind if I include this comment in some related piece? I’d come up with a piece just to give that comment a platform.
I'm going to take a crack at making the dual modernist connection. I remember the first time you said that in a comment. I kind of understood what you were saying, but I had never thought of it from that angle before. I want to give it a think and dig a little deeper into it. As long as I've been dealing with both radical traditionalists and modernists, I have never considered that connection. But when you mentioned it, intuitively, it felt accurate. I may have to hit you up for more of your thoughts on it, though, so stand by for that possibility, lol. Thank you, by the way!
I feel sorry especially for those who attend diocesan TLM or Ecclesia Dei commission masses. Caught in the crossfire of the disobedience of others.
You are either a fool or a modernist. Either way you are wrong about the Society and what the Catholic Church has always and everywhere believed.
I’m not a modernist you just have a modernistic idea of what tradition means. Which makes YOU the modernist.
That being in communion with the Pope is important? That a priest must be under the diocesan Bishop? That the Church is Indefectable? That an integral aspect of the Episcopal (Overseer) office is governance?
"Here’s what frustrates me about this: there is a large segment of faithful, orthodox Catholics who have a soft spot for the SSPX. Some attend their Masses. Some read their publications. Some quietly cheer them on as a counterweight to the chaos in the broader Church."
This tendency to just overlook regular attendance at SSPX chapels, particularly when the FSSP exists drives me a little batty too. I'm sorry, I don't have a lot of patience for someone who is probably driving at least 45 minutes, if not over an hour, past all sorts of Catholic parishes to attend those Masses.
Schism does matter, because it's about a lack of all three virtues: faith, hope, and charity. If you are a faithful Catholic, the bar is FSSP, not SSPX, even if you don't have any Missal of 1962 Mass convenient. I don't want to read materials from them. What materials I've seen mostly amount to uncharitable and pedantic rants.
"We would never think of cheering for Martin Luther, we would never think of cheering for Arias, and we would never think of cheering for 1970s modernists. "
The other 1970's modernist archetype was Archbishop Lefebvre. There's no meaningful difference between a cafeteria Catholic who will throw a fit if they don't get "Gather Us In" in flip flops versus a cafeteria Catholic who will throw fit if they don't ad orientum for 90 minutes in a language they probably don't understand. One party only has better taste. It's the same rebellion inverted.
I will blow mental gaskets when I claim traditionalism = a different form of modernism, but it's true. Vatican I and II were councils aimed directly at modernism. What do traditionalists and hippie/progressives reject? Vatican I and II.
How is exclusively attending the Latin Mass “avoiding the suffering of the Church?” Are you saying that we’re supposed to just sit quietly & endure twenty-plus years more of silly antics from Karen, Father Fabulous, Bishop Bubbles, etc.?
Hmm...I think you maybe meant this for another commenter??? Anyway, since you've clearly stated that being at Mass with rubes like myself is suffering, I think you've probably answered your own question. I would genuinely like everyone who is struggling with those issues to eventually not feel like it's suffering. Or least gain some perspective on those complaints anytime they look at a Crucifix.
What are you talking about? Why would I call you a “rube”? I don’t even go to a Latin Mass parish, though several of my good friends do.
Who is "Karen", "Father Fabulous", "Bishop Bubbles"?? They are derogatory stand-ins for the ordinary Catholics that we see at ordinary parishes/part of ordinary dioceses. Are any of them perfect? Nope. Are some of them annoying/hard to deal with/weak in faith? Yep. So we'll to need to throw me into the lot, because I'm all of those things too. It may turn out that learning to love Karen, et. al is exactly what we need to do.
I didn't realize so much action had erupted here. If you think this is a spectacle, you should see how the post is playing out on Facebook. Well over a hundred comments, two of them from Protestants, the rest from people defending the society. Not a single good argument in the bunch.
This is why I say Catholics are brainwashed. They are brainwashed by independent Catholic media and by the infection brought into the Church by sede vacantists, handing it to radical traditionalists within the Church. It's the walking dead. They talk and they talk, but they do not think. Intellectually dead, but animated.
I personally tend to believe there was already an alternative magisterium out there pre social media. It's just that social media set it on fire. People really do read their feeds as if a priest is telling them this in their living rooms.
There is a lot of truth there. It’s a bit of a paradox. Sometimes we do something but we mean actually precisely the opposite. For example: going exclusively to Latin Mass seems like the person is taking on the suffering of the Church, but it’s actually trying to avoid that suffering. It’s like closing your eyes on some reality and hoping that reality will disappear if we keep our blinkers on.
The crucifixion is and was a scandal . Jesus says happy are those that are not scandalised in me . Mt 11:6
Great comment. I also feel like exclusively attending Latin Mass is avoiding the suffering of the Church. I tell people that all the time.
Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment!!
My friend, you belong on a stage or in front of a microphone. That comment….my goodness! I mean I can go on a pretty good tear but your structure and substance there make me look like an imbecile at this. And your finishing move:
“I will blow mental gaskets when I claim traditionalism = a different form of modernism, but it's true. Vatican I and II were councils aimed directly at modernism. What do traditionalists and hippie/progressives reject? Vatican I and II.”
Would you mind if I include this comment in some related piece? I’d come up with a piece just to give that comment a platform.
By all means, please do. I'd be honored if you did. You're free to do what you will with comment.
I'm going to take a crack at making the dual modernist connection. I remember the first time you said that in a comment. I kind of understood what you were saying, but I had never thought of it from that angle before. I want to give it a think and dig a little deeper into it. As long as I've been dealing with both radical traditionalists and modernists, I have never considered that connection. But when you mentioned it, intuitively, it felt accurate. I may have to hit you up for more of your thoughts on it, though, so stand by for that possibility, lol. Thank you, by the way!
It's this decision moments that will show who truly loves the faith and who just goes with radicalism because it is "based."